On Webdesign and Education

A recent twitter conversation on webdesign and education, captured with the help of storify.

On web-designers “We live in a world of hobbyists & the majority of our peers are hobbyists parading as professionals.” http://bit.ly/r2Y15z
kupfers

August 3, 2011
@GoranSoderstrom Did you read the article? Some bold statements I’d never dare to make but explains the plenty of articles on the web.
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@kupfers Yes, wonderful article. On daring or not: You have backup, so you should definately dare to speak out more.
GoranSoderstrom
August 3, 2011
Sad but true: We live in a world of hobbyists & the majority of our peers are hobbyists parading as professionals bit.ly/r2Y15z via @kupfers
rnkeller
August 3, 2011
@rnkeller @kupfers Have we always lived in a world of hobbyist, or is it only due to the relative ease of use and affordability of tools?
brampitoyo
August 3, 2011
This”ll ruffle some feathers: http://bit.ly/r2Y15z HT @kupfers
ilovetypography
August 3, 2011
@kupfers some good points, but unfair to single out web designers. Same gpes for almost any industry or profession; e.g. Architecture.
ilovetypography
August 3, 2011
@rnkeller @kupfers #2 is a good point. Hard to know whether someone actually has stuff to show, or too busy working to have stuff to show.
brampitoyo
August 3, 2011
@rnkeller @ilovetypography @brampitoyo It has always been around in all professions (think DIY). You usually get what you”re willing to pay
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@rnkeller @kupfers @ilovetypography DIY had always done it for the love, no? While “experts” I”m not entirely clear. Notoriety?
brampitoyo
August 3, 2011
@kupfers @ilovetypography @brampitoyo Yes DIY was always there; but the claiming to be ‘expert’ is different, & probably newer.
rnkeller
August 3, 2011
@ilovetypography @brampitoyo @rnkeller Architecture however is a different case, very restricted and “proprietary” profession over here.
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@rnkeller @kupfers @ilovetypography Perhaps it”s the physicality of the subject that led to less architecture posers, compared to gr.design?
brampitoyo
August 3, 2011
@ilovetypography @kupfers Print design had/has the same issue… everyone w/ a computer can ‘design’!
rnkeller
August 3, 2011
@kupfers @ilovetypography @brampitoyo Professions with certifications seem more immune, but that’s the point right?
rnkeller
August 3, 2011
@kupfers But in professions like print design, there was a difference in aesthetics between pros and amateurs due to production methods.
blancpain
August 3, 2011
@kupfers On our leveled playing field, the differences are much more nuanced and easier to hide through being a good salesman.
blancpain
August 3, 2011
@blancpain But this article especially points out the difference in aesthetics in webdesign. Production methods don”t matter anymore.
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@kupfers I felt it was mostly about taking the right approach, whatever that means. Deep vs. shallow approach to design and all.
blancpain
August 3, 2011
@rnkeller @ilovetypography @kupfers Sure, but among web designers not having a design ed seems more common. Were schools too slow to adapt?
ninastoessinger
August 3, 2011
@ninastoessinger @rnkeller @ilovetypography @kupfers WERE too slow? 90% of them still are.
blancpain
August 3, 2011
@blancpain @ninastoessinger You don”t need a specific education in design. If it”s a good one it prepares you for all tasks + media to come.
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@kupfers @ninastoessinger Problem with that is people need to learn on their own after school. Most don’t, and it’s not enough anymore.
blancpain
August 3, 2011
@rnkeller @kupfers @ilovetypography @brampitoyo So we need Type Design certifications? I want a badge or special profession card! :D
aaronbell
August 3, 2011
@aaronbell Have Noordjiz, Carter and Frutiger sign your visiting cards? :)
brampitoyo
August 3, 2011
@aaronbell Surprised no one has made a Reading Mafia pinky ring yet :P
rnkeller
August 3, 2011
@rnkeller Maybe it should be a decoder ring. For the secret messages you know!
aaronbell
August 3, 2011
@aaronbell I don”t think so. The mob will sort that out.
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@kupfers @ilovetypography @brampitoyo @rnkeller In Norway, anyone can pose as an architect. There’s no license.
frodebohelland
August 3, 2011
@frodebohelland Pose maybe, but also build as in “hand in the plans and apply for permission at the buiding inspectorate”?
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@kupfers No, but designers surely can :) The Norwegian police recently spent 26 million on a new website that had to be replaced in a month.
frodebohelland
August 3, 2011
@frodebohelland I was writing that architecture is fairly “safe for experts” because one needs constructible evidence. Not true in Norway?
brampitoyo
August 3, 2011
@brampitoyo @ilovetypography Plus the costs involved and security/liability/insurance risks that everything crashes during next earthquake.
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@kupfers @ilovetypography Working like this naturally led to attention for craftmanship, because it means safety of others. I.e. my mother.
brampitoyo
August 3, 2011
@kupfers @ilovetypography The thesis: when lives are at hand, one can”t fake expertise. Hobbyists claim because there”s no danger involved.
brampitoyo
August 3, 2011
@grillitype @ninastoessinger @ilovetypography @kupfers Most of the older faculty probably still doesn’t understand web design.
rnkeller
August 3, 2011
@rnkeller @grillitype @ninastoessinger @ilovetypography @kupfers Most of the younger ones don’t, either.
typeoff
August 3, 2011
@typeoff @grillitype @ninastoessinger @ilovetypography @kupfers …because they didn’t learn it when they were in school.
rnkeller
August 3, 2011
@rnkeller @typeoff @ilovetypography @kupfers I did 1 of the 1st multimedia dsgn programs at a German design school; nobody taught web design
ninastoessinger
August 3, 2011
@ninastoessinger But you got a general idea of (good) design > you can also design for the web. It”s not about learning to code in artschool
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@rnkeller @typeoff @ilovetypography @kupfers Must be hard to integrate sth so fluid & still-evolving into a syllabus. But [more] needed, no?
ninastoessinger
August 3, 2011
@kupfers I wonder why so many people who get to be web designers don’t study design. Can it be b/c schools don’t offer enough in that field?
ninastoessinger
August 3, 2011
@ninastoessinger It”s a field of lateral entrants, high demand and good payment. Dedicated studies take time and cost. Why trade that in?
kupfers
August 3, 2011
We don”t need dedicated webdesign education. We need universal design edu preparing thinking, self-paced students for future tasks and media
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@kupfers nail on the head.
ilovetypography
August 3, 2011
@ilovetypography @kupfers Agreed. It’s the ‘design’ part that requires an education. Web in itself is ridiculously simple.
karipatila
August 3, 2011
@kupfers The real problem is that many students don’t want “future thinking”, they want hard skills in specific applications.
aaronbell
August 3, 2011
@kupfers That way, they’re able to be educated quickly and out the door to start earning money quickly. Only ones that aspire to more stay.
aaronbell
August 3, 2011
@aaronbell They can do an apprenticeship instead (like in our two-tiered education in DE). But then you are an executor, not a designer.
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@kupfers See, that would make sense–where I went to school, there was no such thing as two tiered education–one tier to rule them all.
aaronbell
August 3, 2011
@kupfers And indeed, there are many folk who just want to be executers. That’s fine, as long as it is obviously who they are.
aaronbell
August 3, 2011
@kupfers @aaronbell I prefer single-tier education immensely. All too often, the lower-tier in DE is a future-destroying trap, I fear.
typeoff
August 3, 2011
@typeoff The core problem, though, is that schools want to kick out students fast with a skillset to work, so they tend toward executers.
aaronbell
August 3, 2011
@aaronbell Yes. And students (as well as their parents and governments) seem to want the schools to do this to them, too.
typeoff
August 3, 2011
@typeoff That, or they don’t have the teaching staff to support higher-level education.
aaronbell
August 3, 2011
@typeoff @aaronbell How so? You can deliberately choose for one or the other. Both have their place and match.
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@kupfers The lower tier has its place until industry deems a sector irrelevant. Then 1000s of workers are fired, w/o any transferable skills
typeoff
August 3, 2011
@kupfers Also, it would be great if you could deliberately choose between one of the other! More often here though, you choose one because …
typeoff
August 3, 2011
@kupfers …your social background and education give you almost zero chance of being admitted into the other :(
typeoff
August 3, 2011
@typeoff Right, both last points are true. Unfortunately. But true for everyone who chooses “executor” over “thinker” regardless of edu.
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@kupfers Yes, there I agree with you 100%!
typeoff
August 3, 2011
@kupfers Yes! And we dont need Web Typography either. Typography works fine for the web too.
GoranSoderstrom
August 3, 2011
YES! “@kupfers: … We need universal design edu preparing thinking, self-paced students for future tasks and media”
blehnert
August 3, 2011
@kupfers @typeoff would also be nice if people could easily return for 2nd tier when maturity or circumstance allow it.
robmck
August 3, 2011
@robmck They do, a lot. We have many applications at uni from people who first did an apprenticeship in a studio and now want to dig deeper.
kupfers
August 3, 2011
@ilovetypography @kupfers agree that good points made, but similar critics appeared on early days of “desktop publishing.” bit.ly/r2Y15z
typofonderie
August 3, 2011

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